Saturday, August 08, 2015

debating

Reading the aftermath of the Republican debate, a debate I watched, has been informative about Republican politics as much as the candidates. It's easy now to tell which righties are dictated to by the oligarchs. RedState just disinvited Trump from a forum that is supposed to be what righties care about with Erikson at its head. It pretty well says that the forum and RedState are owned. Who else is? So far not Limbaugh but time will tell on him too. They all depend on advertising. Can they really stand against their big money owners? Seems unlikely.

My impression from the debate is nine of the candidates and probably all of the ones from the earlier debate, had their talking points down firmly. They had been told what they better say if they want big donations. They said it-- one right after another. Oh, a few like Kasich tempered it but the view is the same--
Build a wall  across southern border  √
do not pay for wall across southern border   √
do not negotiate with Iran to block their acquiring nukes  √
go to war with Iran   √
do not pay for war with Iran   √
back into war in Iraq and wherever else it is profitable for industry here  √
less government (except for wars or personal choices)  √
i.e. no regulations for environment or campaign finances    √
but regulate abortion and make personhood law of land  √
criminalize abortion     √
gay marriage is bad, amendment banning would be good (but we love our families )  √
health care for everyone is bad    √
unless it's us or our families  √
Obama is bad    √
Hillary is worse  √

I could go on, but you get the gist. There is not one possible Republican I could vote for based purely on the issues. I listened to them for two hours and just find it amazing that half the country wants what they are promising which is less personal freedom, less concern for the poor, no help with health care, and more wars. 

And then there is Trump. There was no doubt in my mind that the demand had gone out to Fox that they should take him out. While they did not ask Jeb Bush about his own questionable business dealings, those were front and center where it came to Trump. Jeb Bush sold out to lobbyists to get his fortune = good. The fact that Trump slyly used our own laws (laws he himself pointed out aren't good) = bad. 

Limbaugh had said ahead of this debate that he'd been told the oligarchs had ordered the candidates to take Trump out. He said he wondered if they'd dare do it. Well, they didn't, but the Foxies did or tried to. They did it with not asking him policy questions but instead went for the personal. They had the power, and they used it by taking up 1/3 of the two hours with their pointed questions where they pontificated. IF I had forgotten how much I dislike Fox, that debate would have reminded me. I just saw my last Republican debate, but am glad I watched this one. Seeing more would be like hitting myself over the head with a hammer.

There was not one man on that stage (or woman earlier, given what I know about Fiorina) that I could vote for and that includes Trump but not for the reasons the Foxies tried to convince the American people. It's his thin skin. That would cause a LOT of grief in a President. Look at how Obama is constantly attacked. IF he felt he had to attack back, get revenge, how would that work? Thin skin might be fine in a property developer, casino owner, multi-billionaire, or entertainer-- not good at all in a man with his finger on the button. I don't think Trump would go to war with bombs over that thin skin, but it makes him easy to manipulate. 

I also do not believe any CEO type would make a good President. I know it sounds good-- they made their fortune and can make ours. But they are used to issuing orders, not compromising. We have too little ability right now of the right and left to work together for the good of the nation. There'd be less with a Trump in the power seat.

But he was right to not promise to support any Republican who gets the nomination. How could he if he thinks he might run as an independent? I think that question is when they decided to go for blood with him. If he had agreed, the questions he'd have gotten might've been very different.

Now for righties-- here's the dilemma. Do they support Fox in this as Fox is out to get Trump due to the ones who run it? Do righties give up their favorite station for its bashing of the left and Obama? Because Trump is on his own now with only one path to the White House-- as an independent, he might hang around for awhile in the Republican primaries; but if the Fox viewers are as brainwashed as many of us believe they are, he can't get the nomination. They are the voters and will be dictated to as much as the commentators Thursday night were. It would be interesting.

As for me, I'll be voting Democrat and just hope for the best as to who that will be. It's not like I am happy right now either.


14 comments:

Ingineer66 said...

I told my wife this morning that there could be photos of Hillary clubbing baby seals on that server the FBI seized and there would still be people supporting her.
I agree that Trump would probably not make a good president, but it sure is fun to watch him try. When he answers a question, he doesn't have to think, what does George Soros or Steven Spielberg think of this answer.

Rain Trueax said...

And you know why that would happen-- issues! Republicans keep nominating those who have no interest in the average working person beyond getting their vote. They talk like they are on 'your' side and then cut SS; try to end Medicare; undo environmental regs to protect your food, air and water; go after women's rights to their own bodies; give more benefits to the rich; start wars they wouldn't want their own kids to fight; try to put their idea of Biblical rules into laws; and I could go on but you get the idea. If a Republican ever ran on a real libertarian agenda, you might see a difference but those who talk libertarian stop short of women's rights. She will be the only choice of the left and any part of the middle who doesn't want the Bible running our country like Sharia law. Listen to Huckabee or any of the righties talk for awhile and it's not hard to see why the Democratic candidate is the only choice for most people who aren't caught up in religion.

There is an exception to that-- Donald Trump. He's an unknown for most of the issues and might not be what the right thinks-- which is why they are trying to take him out. I read that he said he wouldn't cut SS because the beneficiaries paid for it. That kind of talk is not popular with oligarchs who run everybody else. The problem with Trump is his thin skin. But it is the right who want him out of this more than the left and it's not just to get Hillary the office.

If there is a criminal aspect to her email server, this whole subject may be moot, and it'll be Sanders, O'Malley or Biden which is a whole different ballgame. I bet that there is a criminal aspect to how the Clintons used their foundation but the right will save that for the last. Clintons are a risky business for the left as their sole hope! I only know a few lefties who want her.

Ingineer66 said...

Me and most of my conservative friends agree with you that most of the Republicans keep shooting themselves in the foot with the religious talk. The Dems will let the Republicans try to deal with Trump unless he wins the nomination, then watch the gloves come off. They will uncork on him. Speaking of thin skin, have you seen Hillary when she is challenged on something. She makes Trump look like Ghandi when she is not given softball questions. I think Omalley is the best Dem option for the country, but would love to watch the Biden show during the campaign.

Rain Trueax said...

Yeah, I dislike Hillary for a score of reasons and it's only one. Trump at least doesn't feel he's better than others. He's a showman. Of course, he is also currently right wing in his views. We'll see if that lasts if he gets in. He can't likely get the nomination due to the Republican power structure. He thinks Hillary will be out before the campaign (emails, and he said what I think on that-- it was Obama she wanted to hide them from).

He said in the end, if he gets it, it'll be him against Biden. I just hope Trump does not choose Fiorina to prove he's good with women. Not only can I not stand her for what she did to HP, but she's a horrible choice, rather like Palin only never having won an election. He and Biden at least are two guys with a sense of humor. Most politicians don't have one. And the Dems have been hitting hard on Trump with everything bad they can think of. They are a bit mystified he's made it this far though. You must not watch any leftie shows or read their blogs ;). Given the rest of the right wing choices though, he's the least obnoxious to me and that's amazing to say!

Ingineer66 said...

All of the pundits keep saying that Trump will be out because of what he says. But his poll numbers keep going up. They don't know how to deal with a non-politician. It is great. I hope he picks one of the top contenders when the time comes. A Walker or Carson would be better than picking another CEO.

The media keeps saying that Trump doesn't have specifics. Look at how far away the election is, he doesn't need specifics yet. Hell we didn't get specifics from Obama until half way through his first year in office.

I think many of them have a sense of humor, we just don't get to see it. When Bob Dole hosted Saturday Night Live and made the talk show circuit after he lost, he showed he was a pretty funny guy. But he had been made out in the media as a stuffy old Republican that hates children and puppies. Except Hillary. She probably doesn't have much of a sense of humor or any charisma.

Biden is actually starting to grow on me. He says the stupidest things, but I think he is probably a decent human being. And I think his wife Jill is great. She speaks much better than he does. And she spent a lot of time touring military facilities and supporting both wounded and fighting troops. She drug Michelle around with her for a while too. At least until the last election, now Michelle doesn't have to care about the military.

Rain Trueax said...

If Trump picks either walker or Carson, he is picking a radical right winger who would put personhood into our constitution and ban gay marriage if they could do it. They are both totally incapable of being a president of this country for all the people-- it's only the religious right who they respect. I hope he picks someone who is more moderate if he hopes to win. Nobody on the Republican docket would qualify. Maybe he can choose a senator or someone who is outside the loop. I believe to this day that McCain lost for his choice of Palin! The righties don't agree but they already were voting for her and him. The winner of a presidency has to get the middle and those two won't do it anymore than Palin did. What gets me with Carson is his belief that all you have to do is be smart and you are qualified to be president. That alone shows his ignorance!

Righties really dislike Michelle. I like her. I also like Jill Biden. It's not a matter of either or. And Michelle has gone to bases and military events with Obama but that doesn't get reported by the media on the right.

I like Biden and it'd be interesting to see him and Trump debate if it ends up one or the other. Maybe Trump could pick one of the retired generals ;). There are several that could help him win if he did-- they are not all pro war btw but only go to war when you must because they've seen it-- like Eisenhower. Weaselly guys like Walker love wars but they sure won't be going will they or their sons. He doesn't look or talk like a president and if you study his record in Wisconsin, it's not as good as he makes it out to be!

Rain Trueax said...

Not that it was likely anyway but Trump just ended any slim chance I'd vote for him with his policy statement-- Deport 11 million illegals and back to war in Iraq. It wasn't like I would have but his policies are too far right for me. I go a lot by issues for who I support.... at least what they say they'll do ;). We did not pay for the Bush's war in Iraq and going back is not going to make our economic situation better or end the appeal ISIS apparently has with inspiring terrorism, which is the only way they can endanger this country. Selfish or not, I favor what others have said-- push the Middle East to take care of their own problem. They have plenty of troops to do it but they prefer to let our men and women be killed or maimed as well as our people to pay for their problem. I saw it listed how many troops they have over there and then ISIS with their 20 or 30,000 and Trump and his ilk would have us right back in there again with our men dying and building more enemies around the world while the terrorists entrench in Africa and elsewhere.

Ingineer66 said...

Trump used to be pro choice. I wonder if it is like Obama being against gay marriage. He says one thing but means another.

Rain Trueax said...

Obama was like many of us who evolved. At one time we thought (and what he said) there should be civil unions. Then people came to see gay marriage was important for respect. So I don't think it's the same thing. Trump though at least would allow abortion for incest, rape and life of mother. Some of your guys would not. Huckabee said he wouldn't have allowed it either for a 10 year old who was having her father's baby... That's extreme!

But what Trump said is not okay with me either. I though believe in a limit on when abortion should be permitted-- and that aborting an 8 month fetus is not okay. That's when it should be c-section for the life of the mother-- not crushing a baby's head when they could be born alive and survive.

Ingineer66 said...

I agree. What that Planned Parenthood woman was talking about was disgusting if you listen to what she said.

Rain Trueax said...

Did you listen to the full two hours where they tried to get her to say what they wanted or the clip? And this is one woman or clinic in Texas, as I understand it, dealing with already aborted fetuses. Planned Parenthood provided my first exam and first pills when I was going to college and we were about to get married. It does not get government money now for abortions due to the law. So send the fetus to be burned or for research? This bunch who put that out only does stuff like this and the idiots who work for planned parenthood got duped into saying stupid stuff. All the clinics who did not-- you didn't hear the tapes from.

Ingineer66 said...

Oh I agree that it was a set up and that they do a lot of good things. But to sit there eating while talking about how sometimes the mothers deliver the live baby before they can kill it and discussing what the parts look like as if they were talking about pigs or cows at the slaughter house is disgusting.

Rain Trueax said...

Well, if the mother delivered a live baby and they killed it, why isn't Texas going after them for murder? That's what they admitted to and they should know. I did not listen to the whole thing. I just know it was edited a lot and it's one group-- a lowlife group frankly on both sides-- those who go around trying to find someone stupid to say what they did and the jerks who were working there and said it-- if the whole thing wasn't a fraud. The right is trying to use it to take down all of Planned Parenthood and block all abortions-- even of 10 year olds raped by their fathers!

Ingineer66 said...

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement on this issue.