Wednesday, November 12, 2014

logic or not

Can the right and left politically have real conversations? I am not sure it's possible even as I try every so often. I think those in the middle, but leaning one way or the other, can but the actual left or right-- with each other-- over issues? I am not so sure about that. 

Here is one of those issues-- gun control. I am the owner of guns--revolvers, rifles and shotguns. In my home are usually loaded guns except when grandchildren are visiting. I also have a gun safe for when I am not going to be there for an extended period of time. 

My guns are both for protection of the livestock but also of myself. The loaded handgun in the house is not meant for a coyote-- at least not the furry type. 

I took a class to enable myself to get a concealed weapon permit though I rarely carry a gun anywhere away from my own property. I don't think I am paranoid about the reason for a gun even as I know my left wing friends would say that I am. To them, you do not need a gun for protection from criminals. When I say I have them to an extreme leftie, I am regarded as not quite right in the head.

On the other hand, to talk about gun control and regulating gun ownership to a rightie, is to be insulted and accused of many things-- none of which are pretty. To them everyone should have the right to own guns and not just ordinary guns but extended magazines and assault rifles as who knows when the government is going to misbehave and they will have to fight off the military. Candidates even get elected to the House and Senate, who say such things.

Conversations between rightie and leftie, sticking to the issue, are about impossible to have, of course, are not just on gun control. It's just on my mind after reading this article.

This is not okay. Is it? I mean who defends this and hence owning guns for those who would use them so irresponsibly? I know the answer-- NRA and extreme righties. On the other hand, who would extend this to taking away ALL guns (which can't be done as only some would turn in their weapons)? Ask me; I know that answer too.

Can left and right really talk about any of these hot button issues? Not in my experience and believe me I have tried to discuss them sticking to the issues and not getting insulting. Logic is only rarely used with facts. It's all emotion.

I read yesterday that 47% of Americans want the country to be governed by the Republican agenda and only 32% by Obama's with some undecideds or don't care. While a recent poll said Republicans in Congress are regarded as failed by all but 14% of Americans. Does any of that make sense???


Rain Trueax said...

Today I listened to Limbaugh, who claims he is the leader of the right wing pundits for what to cover. I can believe it. He said everything the opposite of how I see it as to who can talk about actual ideas and who only uses emotion. After listening to him and his callers, it's not hard to see how I've had so many insulting me at various comment sites. They think we who vote Democratic are trying to destroy the nation. We are liars and dangerous. That's pretty much where any conversation would end and I've sure had a lot say basically the same thing to me when I try to discuss what I think should be done from a leftie perspective.

Wally Blue said...

Here is an interesting perspective: This is an excerpt of an article in the New York Times written by Charles C.W. Cook quoted in The Week magazine.
"Conventional wisdom holds that firearms are the preserve of conservative white men," said Charles C.W. Cooke. But today, 15 percent of African-Americans own firearms, and in the historic struggle for black liberation, the right of every American to bear arms played a crucial role. In early America, the first restrictive firearm laws were "aimed squarely at blacks and native Americans." In 1892, the writer Ida B. Wells recommended that "a Winchester rifle have a place of honor in every black home" to defend against lynching mobs and renegade sheriffs. The first major ban on open carry was enacted in California in 1968, after Black Panthers began "hanging around the State legislature with their guns on display".

Rain Trueax said...

Interesting, Wally. You know I am a believer in gun rights. I always have a handgun around (except when grandkids visit), and it's always loaded.

Where I draw the line is assault rifles and extended magazines. To me if you can't hit it with 6 shots, you should not have a gun. The likelihood of trying to stand up against the government is ridiculous. What I think is we should do what we can to get the guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and gangs. We probably can't totally but we can try.

Wally Blue said...

I come from a family of hunters and gun enthusiasts. I have owned guns all of my adult life. I think what is missing in the 2nd amendment debates is sanity. It would be impossible, like you said, to confiscate all guns. (I wouldn't give up mine) But, not taking any measures to restrict the access to guns by the mentally ill, criminals, gangs, etc. is crazy.

Ingineer66 said...

I do not have a loaded gun in my home. I have one with a lock on it and a speed loader next to it in my night stand. But I feel pretty safe in my neighborhood. The rest are in the gun safe. But I live in California where we just passed a law that makes it only a misdemeanor to steal a gun. But to buy many types of guns or magazines is a felony. The inmates really are running the asylum here.
I was having a discussion on guns with a left leaning friend last weekend and he said he has one gun for protection and the other 15 are for fun. It seems guns are one thing that are not left and right as the political leaders make it out to be.
As for politicians not being able to work together, I think some of them can, just not the leadership or the ones that get on TV often. I heard my Congressman on the local news this week and he seemed willing to work with Democrats on issues that affect all Californians. We will see if it goes anywhere.

Rain Trueax said...

We need more moderates who lean left or right or like me right on one thing and left on another. Moderates can talk to each other. The fundamentalists, of either party, can't. There are reasonable rules we could have where it comes to guns. But it's like abortion-- slippery slope has some defending abortion at nearly 9 months which would be called murder right after that. We need to use common sense and worry less about slippery slopes. I don't like it when I hear the neighbor across the river practicing with their assault rifle. It makes me edgy as do they have control over it... Getting assault rifles out of the hands of the militia types would be impossible as it stands. They'd have to believe it made sense and not be so concerned about fighting off our military...

We'll see how this Senate now behaves with the control of the committees and the ability to bring up any bill they want. Time will tell :)