Monday, August 18, 2014

there's always another side

No surprise in this-- as soon as I posted the following comment at Daily Beast, I got attacked. I figured it'd be that way because this is another situation where I, as a moderate/independent, don't have a side that I favor totally. I see more than one answer to what happened with several ideas on what should be done. Still, I finally felt compelled to say what I thought in a world where people want to blame somebody; so one side sees it as the cop who did wrong. Another side blames the black community.
"I just wish the people in America would wait to see all the facts. The autopsy pretty much confirms the story the police officer told regarding what happened. If he knew a strong-arm robbery had taken place, he didn't know it was these two. But they knew and when they were stopped, it explains their belligerence. The 'witness' had every reason to make it look as though the police officer overstepped. Remember all this talk of 'just' stealing cigars isn't quite the case given the photos we saw. He did strong-arm that small clerk.

 Frankly I feel sorry for the police as they face such dicey situations. Yes, it sounds like Ferguson police had been abusing power but that does not mean this officer was doing less than his job. He has been hung out to hang by those who want to profit from this politically-- on both sides and it looks like it ignores the real problem-- what has happened to Ferguson itself as our country has changed.

When I read that Ferguson high schools are not accredited because the kids scored too low, I wondered why Missouri hadn't cared enough to work on that problem years ago. Young men who can't get an education are on a dead-end road whether it ends violently or hopelessly. Yes, this is a systemic problem and not just Ferguson. Yes, we should have standards for police that they have to meet whether it's a minority or not. But this should be about what happened first; then deal with the reason the people have reacted as they have. If people feel powerless, it can lead to rage. But using it to blame one police officer for what happened seems wrong until we know more about what happened. The autopsy certainly affirms what I had heard he claimed more than the supposed witness who had a stake in it being bad cop."
So are Americans ever willing to wait for the whole story, or do they just want the story that suits their agenda... right or left!

When I read the explanation of what led to the shooting, which had been called into a radio station by a 'supposed' friend of the police officer, it rang true to me and having seen what happened in the store earlier, I could see why the young black man acted as he did also: [transcript from radio caller].  When I finally decided to write something about it here, I had to really dig to find a link. It's not being widely spread what his story was. Our government didn't even want released the surveillance tape of the teen manhandling a much smaller clerk to steal those cigars. 

For those who say this was all about stealing cigars, which should not be a big deal and you add onto it the things you recall stealing-- did you threaten someone else to do it? Manhandle them? If you did, then you weren't just a thief, were you?

Right now, and not surprisingly, one side sees it as all about the misuse of power by the cops and the other purely about what was done wrong to this black community in general. In the last week, we got examples of both overreaches. It is being exploited by those who seek to profit from it and Americans eagerly go along with that because we love exciting stories even tragic ones.

All right, I do think the black community in Ferguson had been done wrong, but do they have some responsibility for that or are they total victims? If the school board is all white but the community is 70% black, what's that about? Why has the state of Missouri ignored a whole community where the high school is not accredited? A place where there really is no way out and up-- except maybe to deal drugs to the nearby white community or to steal. Does that seem bad for everybody to you? It sure does to me.

I know one thing -- after rioting and looting, what business will want to go back into that community? It has cost such communities local jobs in the past and likely will again. Business wants stability and rioting doesn't offer it. 

Recently we saw a lawless bunch supporting that rancher in Nevada and they were all or mostly at least white. They also claimed an abuse of power and wanted to use violence to get their idea of justice. Frankly, this is not so much about color as it is about education. What will we do about that? Nothing is what we have been doing... and for those blacks who said it's their hood and we should stay out. Nope. It's our country, and we can't afford to let an abscess grow. We have to work to fix it and I think it starts with a meaningful education system that leads to hope not hopelessness. It takes convincing young people that they need an education. Right now we aren't winning that battle with too many.

And on the shooting-- separate out whether it was legally and morally done from the bigger picture of what has happened to this community. It is possible the officer overreacted and did commit murder. I don't know. But who does right now? We should not lose track of the bigger picture of what got us here. We also should not confuse it with the shooting itself. The officer could be guilty of murder or not. Why can't we wait to find out? The six shots are meaningless. Once you start to attack an officer, if that is what happened, he will shoot until you are down. I am not trying to defend the shooter. I just think right now we don't know and a lot of the hysterical rhetoric on both sides does not want to know. I've seen these kinds of stories before and it often takes a long time to sort out logical facts. Nobody in the media gave it the time this go round-- they never do and they don't help.


Ingineer66 said...

The more evidence that comes out, the less it looks like the kid was some sweet innocent kid on his way to his grandmas house.

I never understood the "let's prove were not all criminals by robbing and burning stores" mentality.

Last year while delivering newspapers in a Toyota truck two Asian women were gunned down by LAPD that were looking for a black man in a Nissan truck. If anybody had a reason to riot it was after that incident, yet the Asian community didn't riot and loot. White people get shot by the police around here pretty regularly. I never thought of it as an opportunity to go down to Costco and steal a TV.

Ingineer66 said...

PS Americans do not want to wait for anything. They want it all right now. Kind of like the Administration releasing the operational details of the raid to try and free the journalist that just got beheaded. We didn't need to know about that, but Obama needed to try and take credit for doing something. Normally this kind of thing would come out 10 years from now in a book, but this administration releases secret stuff all the time while trying to look important.

Rain Trueax said...

What I thought was interesting is all the complaints about Bergdorff or however you spell his name. Our soldier who had been held a hostage. Supposing they had beheaded him and obama had not done anything to get him back, how would that go over with the right? they just want to find fault with him for anything he does. As to who released the info that they had tried, it might have been the Pentagon. Or even slipped out.

I think we have a problem with police being too belligerent and too prone to shoot first out of either fear or rage-- and that would be against any nationality.

I always feel the rioting hurts them more than anybody else.

The media wants the police officer hung and they are getting plenty of attaboys from liberals for what they put out. One side is no different than the other in that they all have an agenda.

Rain Trueax said...

I don't think the military had the same obligation to free these newsmen. They are American citizens but they had a choice of not going there. I feel they were brave to do so and they do it for noble reasons but the soldiers are a whole different ball of wax. We have to do all we can to get them back-- in one piece.

I think with ISIL that we have to go after them big time or we will have them blowing up one of our cities. Not much doubt about their goals. They are recruiting from all the 'developed' nations and something will happen. If they are successful, it'll add to their prestige.

Ingineer66 said...

I think we are pretty much in agreement on every topic in this post. That doesn't happen that often. Except maybe Bergdahl. He deserted his unit and deserved whatever he got from the Taliban.

Rain Trueax said...

There was a lot put out about him that turned out to not be true. I think if he's going to be charged, it should be where his story also comes out. The other side that I heard is he's asperger's and he needed time alone in the hills. He'd done it before. This time he got caught. He would have gone back as this wasn't a desertion but lousy judgment. Now whether he should pay a criminal price for that, let the military work it out but a lot of lies were told about him like blaming all the deaths in that area on searching for him and turned out they were routine patrols. He also was disgusted by the things that went on in his unit; so some of those who put him down might not have been innocent in behavior.

The point i made though was if they had hung or beheaded him, can you imagine how righties would blame Obama. I mean they are blaming him on this when frankly this guy took his risks. What I hope is it leads to our getting ISIL before they grow. They will do a terrorist attack on us if they can. No doubt in my mind. And they are totally brutal. Burying women and children alive, other beheadings, etc. etc. Ugh! They had control over a man who was a born hero and they used it in the most malicious ways man can try to break another. Sounds like they failed and then they murdered him. I just hope our government doesn't underestimate their danger to the world. To me they sound like psychotics are what they are drawing to them and giving people like that power with weapons is scary, very scary

Ingineer66 said...

These ISIL nut bars are scary and need killing. Looks like they are not the JV team that Obama said they were. :-)

Rain Trueax said...

Where did Obama list him as a dream team? A right wing claim? Not what this picture indicates and it's McCain buddying up to them-- McCain with ISIS leaders. McCain wanted us arming them if you recall. And there is a more moderate element in Syria which ISIS is not. Right now it looks like Assad is also attacking ISIL. Somebody better and mean business. The bad part is evidently they are spread throughout the world including here. Maybe we'll be glad to gov't eavesdrops, you think...

Ingineer66 said...

That part of the world is a mess. We back the Kurds in Iraq but not in their fight against Turkey. We wanted to back the rebels in Syria but now they are the enemy in Iraq.

Ingineer66 said...

This is from a story from that right wing rag the USA Today. Last January, President Obama dismissed the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) as a mere junior varsity terrorist outfit compared to al Qaeda. "The analogy we use around here sometimes, and I think is accurate," he told TheNew Yorker, "is if a JV team puts on Lakers uniforms that doesn't make them Kobe Bryant."

Rain Trueax said...

We have complex problems there and I think probably when he said that, which I had not read, it's what they were. They have been growing and their ambitions are huge. I just read how they have funded that growth.

Kidnapping and having the ransoms pay for their growth has been their secret. Europe can thank themselves for this, as they ransomed a lot who came into their clutches. The US refused and hence they proved how vicious they are-- and now we have more goals being released like world terrorism and eventually domination.

We should not give money. We should not trade dangerous terrorists, which they also asked for. But some countries have and now they can see it come home as it will. Kidnapping well off people has proven lucrative. Why would they stop with those in the Middle East?

The article I saw that talked about how they funded their growth was in a UK paper. Our newspapers have been more worried about Ferguson which while a problem is not nearly as big a one-- yet-- as ISIL.

On Turkey, the problem we have is they are in NATO. That changes the rules, but what I also heard is they have been helping ISIL as a way to keep safe. You know let the bad guys get in their supplies and they won't be bad to you. Turkey is kidding themselves. These guys are nobody's friend and Turkey will find that out sooner than later if they keep growing in power. This is the time to take them way back down.

In two years, this all may well be a Republican problem-- you know the guys who never met a war they didn't love.

So what will you guys offer as a solution-- putting us in more wars you aren't willing to pay for as you did with Afghanistan and Iraq? We had a surplus when Bush took office. He took care of that real fast. Now no surplus and when you give the Senate to your side, you will have total responsibility for Congress. All kinds of things you can do besides talk but just be sure you then are willing to pay the piper. You didn't last time with those tax cuts and wars. It was nuts and time has proven how nuts. This country is still paying the price which is why Republicans always want to say how we should not bring up the past and what Bush did as though consequences vanished with an election.

Ingineer66 said...

It is interesting with Turkey. They have been fighting the Kurdish rebels in their country forever. But they want the oil from Kurdish Iraq so they are also working with them. Sounds kind of like something we would do, huh.

Rain Trueax said...

I think it's human nature and not particularly noble of us as you see it in one country after another :(