Friday, October 07, 2011

Herman Cain

Everything I see on Herman Cain makes me think he's naive with a very simplistic view of how he could govern if he got into the office of the President. He is running with popularity in the right because he presents simple programs like 9-9-9 which would evidently do away with all deductions, sounds like for corporations also and have a flat tax for everyone.

It's not as hard on the poor as you might imagine because the payroll tax would not be used anymore. The thing is though can that pay for all we have currently going on? I doubt Cain knows.

People like simplicity and somebody who suggests they can solve all the problems without asking the American people to dig deeply into their thinking bag is likely to be popular with a certain segment who won't bother asking if it works.

His being nominated is probably unlikely after people learn more of his ideas. Right now the one least known has the best chance of winning anything. Any generic Republican can supposedly beat Obama. This means an unknown who jumped into it at the last with no debates, no time to analyze program suggestions, maybe even a draft movement in the Convention, that is most likely going to look like a winner to Republican voters-- the old pig in a poke.

So I want this quote here and easy to find in the future in case he gets the nomination. It should be brought out again and again as I think it's where he shows his naivety as much as anywhere. Doubtless there are more money quotes and you can be sure they'll be in Democratic attack ads if he gets the nomination. For now it'll be Republican candidates bringing them out.
CAIN: "I don’t have facts to back this up, but I happen to believe that these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the failed policies of the Obama administration. Don’t blame Wall Street, don’t blame the big banks, if you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself! [...] It is not someone’s fault if they succeeded, it is someone’s fault if they failed."


Dion said...

Here's a left-wing think tank's analysis of Cain's 999 economic plan.

Ingineer66 said...

Maybe the percentages need to be adjusted but I would be willing to give it a shot. If it is a failure then try something else. Can't be any worse than spending 50% more than we take in while the economy keeps getting worse.

Rain said...

I hope you read Dion's link after you made your comment, ingineer. Basically what sounds simple is what Americans love but it won't work out that way. Here's another link on what Americans actually pay. Forget the rhetoric, there is no 50% rate and nobody on the left is proposing one. That is the total when they figure in all the taxes and that doesn't include fees when anybody says 50%.

Income tax nonpayment

People love to think something easy can get them all the government is doing, pay the interest on the debt (which was 25% when Obama took office) and have them paying less. It's a shell game and it won't happen.

First of all Cain won't be able to get it. How many people will go along with ending the deduction on home interest loans when housing is already in a slump? How about the charitable deductions which keep a lot of them afloat? You really want to pay 9% sales tax added onto every other single thing you buy?

It will have the poor paying more than now given now the rate for income tax is 15% up to I think just under 50,000 (I am not sure of that number as I read it and forgot the exact point. It starts at 10% and goes up to 33% for federal but you have to take into account all the deductions that come into play before they start counting it income. You won't with the 9%. People who bought a home counting on that deduction could find themselves paying more money under Cain's plan. You notice he still allows charitable deductions with not only no limit on how much or to what kind of charity.

The problem with Cain is he is like Palin only more so. While she had at least been a mayor and then been elected a governor, he has zero experience in federal government. He's been on the outside between being a pizza CEO and then a motivational speaker. You really think he'll get cooperation from anybody there who has lobbyist money supporting their campaigns? Corporations right now often end up with huge profits that they can write off due to this or that favorite deduction which means they won't be helping Cain with any of this.

The national sales tax will instantly jump what everybody pays for everything they buy and that will most impact the poor. it could also impact sales because that tax is on top of the state ones already in place.

The main thing is that there is NO proof it can work even if they went for it. People all want what they want which in the case of the right wing is a state of the art military which like Romney just said makes us the power brokers in the world. He didn't use that word. He just said we lead the world and then the free world comes under us and it leads everybody else. That kind of thing takes a lot more successful nation than we are becoming and a lot of the lack of success is no willingness to share the wealth. I don't even mean by taxes. I mean like those billionaires being willing to invest in improving products and job creation.

Even the nearly canonized Steve Jobs was a multibillionaire, who put anything he was putting into his own company where he manufactured a lot of what he was selling overseas. They all do. And they do it to maximize profits but it's short sighted as without jobs here, who can eventually buy those products?

Ingineer66 said...

Rain you miss-understood my comment. The US government is currently spending 50% more than we take in, in taxes.

That would be like a person that makes $50,000 a year spending $75,000 per year and putting that $25,000 on a credit card. After a couple of years the credit card debt equals your annual income and that is where we are. And the Democrats answer has been that we need to spend more money to solve the problem and that is just wrong and not working.

Rain said...

I am in Missoula, lost my mouse and just lost the post I wrote about this. I will write more when I am in a better situation

Rain said...

Okay, less tired and trying this again. There is NOTHING in Cain's plan to suggest it will lower the deficit except his word-- a guy who was a CEO for fast food corporations and a motivational public speaker. Where do you see economics in any of that? You do see able to see able to speak well and convince people to do something. The problem with economics like evolution or questions about religion-- these things aren't about convincing someone they are right. They are about being right or not. He can convince you all he wants but if 9-9-9 won't bring in the needed revenue, if it will hurt the economy, if a flat tax that only supports religions and charities doesn't help the economy, if it is unfair to the poor who are already barely getting by, you won't find out right away.

Republicans argued that the presidency should not be on job training with Obama but at least he had been elected to offices before this. Cain is bragging that never being elected, an economics plan that nobody knows will work, that will unduly hurt the poor, that will pay down our deficit. How does he know? He does not but he's a motivational speaker with the proper religious values and belief in this mythological supreme being to take care of everything. 9-9-9 and Cain are a pig in a poke but Republicans did that with Palin for VP who well could have ended up president and that is why I could see them doing it this time. If Cain was suggesting the people who like him will be paying more to fix things, he'd be history. They want something for nothing and THIS is a shell game

Ingineer66 said...

And what is Obama's economic background? He was never a CEO and was a community organizer. Which means he was good at getting tax money for people that didn't work for it.

Rain said...

which is my point. It's what you found fault with but okay when it's your guy or gal obviously. Just at least look at whether Cain's plan would work not whether you will pay less but is it fair and will it do what you claim to want. Obama had been elected to an office at least and he had plans we believed in, be sure your 'religious fundamentalists' do likewise or you might get a surprise for what you get. To me the 9% sales tax will hurt the poor the most but you don't care as you have bought the right wing rhetoric that like Cain says, it's their own fault! Personally I think you bought into the wrong 'bad guys' but you won't believe that as you'd rather blame the weak not the powerful

Ingineer66 said...

I am just saying Cain has a plan. Let's give it a try. What is Obama's plan? He doesn't seem to have one, other than giving campaign speeches about how bad the Republicans are.
And a national sales tax will pick up all that underground illegal economy. The more money you spend the more you get taxed. Sounds like a good idea to me. The Democrats want us to be more like Europe and they have a VAT so we can be like them.

Ingineer66 said...

Oh, Romney is still my guy. I like Cain mostly because he is a big FU to the political establishment both left and right so it is fun to watch. Maybe he should be a VP or something.

Rain said...

We can't afford to try out something that is damaging to the poor, with no promise of anything but something for nothing; but Romney with Christie might have something and I hope that's how it goes. People on the left might give it a chance but the Democrats will do what all you republicans did-- do all they can to destroy whoever wins. Until
Americans figure it out, destroy the other side which is what they did to Obama will be the name of the game; AND if any of them want to use religiosity to force moral values onto the rest of us, they deserve to fail! I am disgusted with the misuse of religion by the right that claims Christ while ignores all his teaching. Romney is your best bet and maybe with Christie to pick up the VP. It is quite possible to win but the better be prepared for what Obama faced as either side only wants the other to lose!

Ingineer66 said...

I agree with you on the religious angle. But Obama is destroying himself. Even his supporters are starting to rethink their positions.

Rain said...

yeah well that'll be true right up until there is a republican with a record. Incidentally if McCain had picked Lieberman, I think it'd have been President McCain. If Romney makes a similar mistake to a Palin type, the polls will look quite different. frankly they are meaningless now.

Ingineer66 said...

True it is about 12 months too early to believe anything in the polls.

Rain said...

Be sure any fans of Cain check out the facts. What I have heard is he only came up with the plan when he decided to run and wanted something showy. Most average Americans will be paying more while Cain types will pay less-- Reverse Robin Hood plan