Thursday, May 26, 2011

Peace in the Middle East?

A lot of people might feel Israel isn't our problem. There are those who totally side with the Israelis no matter what they do because they see them as like us. The argument goes, for those who are not Christians of the apocalypse sort, that it's a Democracy and an example to the Middle East of what can be done in such a place with Democracy.

Well there might be truth in that although Israel has done much of what it has through being supported by Jews around the world as well as having favored friend status with the United States. But still they are successful and their success could be an example of what education can do for a people.

When Obama suggested taking into account the amount of land that each had before the 1967 war, he suggested land swaps to give each enough land to make for a successful country. That might involved allowing Israelis to keep their illegal settlements since that time by trading for other viable pieces of land.

It would not allow continued illegal (illegal under Jewish law) settlements, not if the Israelis really want peace. You cannot just take what someone else has without having them want to attack you. We would feel the same way and have in this country with what many have felt is happening to us with our own illegal entrants. Wars are fought over land and it's not like the Palestinians are the first ones to want to do it. They are just weak as were our own Native Americans.

I don't know the solution to the problem there. There is a political power beyond the Israelis who don't want peace in that region. Basically you can see it in the Muslim world where they relish the idea of a continuing enemy that they can use to raise money and young people ready to die to make things right even if they have no concept how that will come about from their methods. You can see it among radical Christians who believe Israel is going to be the center of Armageddon and it requires a united Jerusalem and Israel for that to happen.

What I wish is people, who don't like what Obama said, would suggest ideas that they consider better, not just try to attack him as stupid or naive (he's neither) but go for the real suggestions. Why is it a bad idea and if it is, what do they suggest? Do they believe just blowing up all Palestinians would solve the problem there? If they do, they are the naive ones.

I don't blame the Israelis for wanting defendable borders but really it's more important that they find a way to deal with the animosity. There is a chance in the Middle East for it to go either way as more and more of the Arab population is demanding a piece of the pie, a chance for a better life, a democratic state. It all could go so many ways and some of them obviously bad for the world, but others quite possibly good for everybody.

The Arab people actually have a proud tradition in their history of development and advancement. That all came to an end with a religion that didn't respect education or science even the science the Arabs themselves had created. If many of those countries do turn to democracy and not a theocracy, we could see a totally different world in the future. It would be wonderful if the Palestinian and Israeli people were leading the way.

Keep in mind there are a sizable group of people in the world though that profit from war. They don't want peace there or anywhere. Those of us who really do want peace, reasonable peace, who believe negotiating can get it, we better speak up about it because you know the warmongers are all too eager to do that.


Robert the Skeptic said...

Of all the troubles warping this earth, the Israeli-Palestinian issue is sooooo off my radar.

Rain said...

It matters to me on religious grounds (misuse of religion as a reason for overlooking either side of it) and because it's the excuse Iran would use to use a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel. I think if there was peace between the Israelis and Palestinians (not going to be easy given the abuse on both sides), it would make increasing democracies more likely throughout the region. I don't know if mankind can really live in peace. Sometimes it seems unlikely but I think it does matter.

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Kay Dennison said...

I like what you're saying here. It makes sense but the cynic that's in my soul reminds me that things that make sense don't seem to get too far in our crazy world. Sigh.

Ingineer66 said...

I believe it is more of an economic struggle than a religious one. Just like the Catholic/Protestant fight in Northern Ireland. It was about power and money and blamed on religion.

The Israelis have taken a pretty miserable piece of land and turned it into a strong economic nation. The Palestinians see that and want the same for their people.

I am not confident that any land for peace deal will end in peace though. Israel pulled out of Lebanon in exchange for peace and all they got were thousands of rockets fired into their neighborhoods from Lebanon. Israel then pulled out of the Gaza Strip in exchange for peace and all they got were thousands of rockets fired into their neighborhoods from Gaza.

Rain said...

So if land for peace won't work, if the policy is to allow Israeli settlers to simply take what land they want, what will bring peace in your opinion or do you figure just killing each other won't eventually end up with Iran entering into it or if the surrounding Arab nations turn to democracy, grow stronger with economic policies, and finally turn on Israel, what happens then?

I don't mind real discussions on alternatives to what Obama, Bush and Clinton have suggested, but would like to hear what they are.

Ingineer66 said...

I favor a 2 state solution. But that will require the Palestinians to control the attacks coming from their side of the border and will require them to recognize Israel. Egypt has been a silent ally of Israel for 30 years, but that is all in question now that Mubarek is gone.

Israel needs to stop building new settlements and control the nut-bars in their own country. I like the idea of the wall between the two to reduce attacks, but they also need to allow the free flow of people and goods between the regions.

Rain said...

That is a lot of what Obama said and the part that the righties ignored when they went ballistic over his speech. They have to acknowledge the right of the Israelis to exist or this can't work. I didn't know until recently that there are people of Arab descent who live in Israel and vote there as citizens. So there can be peace if both sides recognize they have to work on what will genuinely bring it. Nobody wants rockets being sent toward their cities. And I can't believe anybody wants to give Iran an excuse to turn this even more deadly.

Ingineer66 said...

Yes there can be peace if the whackos on both sides would go away. There have been instances where a Palestinian was killed by other Palestinians for marrying a Jew. Just like Afghanistan and much of the Arab world, they are living with 17th century ideals.