Thursday, April 14, 2011

Economic Justice and expenses of governing

Continuing on the subject of economic justice, check out this link which I saw at [Projections]:


The lies from the right support a system of economic justice that hurts the majority of Americans but most Americans don't know and believe what they are fed by the mouthpieces of the right.

Another blog I read regularly, [Can it Happen Here?], had several interesting charts on spending to let citizens see how much of the budget is currently about different kinds or programs.

The issue here has to also be whether we are paying just our share of the military expenses for the world. Does the world even appreciate what we do or is this all for the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about?


Can we continue to bear the burden we currently do and have any level or prosperity at home? For those who resent the poor so much, they seem to not mind military expenses at all. They don't even want those looked at. Bush didn't even count the cost of the two wars into the budget.

Ignoring the biggest part of your spending is a good way to head toward bankruptcy. The same people who resent welfare programs likely supported our efforts in Libya. Right or wrong to go there, how do you pay for it? The right hasn't worried about that as they know they can just pass it on down the road as a way to end social programs.


Incidentally you might notice I am not discussing Obama's speech on economics. There is a reason. I am not sure whether his rhetoric will be matched by his actions. With him, it's a wait and see kind of approach that I take. The speech sounded good if a little naive to think that most Americans want a nation of social and economic fairness. For some Americans, their definition of economic justice is protecting what they already have and growing it. Concern for others is kind of a big pffft! I am not sure how big a piece of a pie chart that percentage would be,

17 comments:

MaryContrary said...

You state the same reasons I have for not being optimistic about Obama and the budget fights coming up. Nice statement of values but let's see the follow-through. I also noticed the story this morning on Huffington Post that quoted a Defense Department spokesman who claimed that any deep cuts in the military budget would endanger our security. I haven't seen that the money we have poured into Iraq, Afghanistan, and, now, Libya have enhanced our security. We have said that we cannot be the world's policeman but our budget doesn't align with that sentiment.

Anonymous said...

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Robert the Skeptic said...

It was glaringly obvious in all these budget/deficit negotiations that the war in Afghanistan was NEVER mentioned. Many of the richest of our rich head companies with military contracts (Halliburton, Martin-Marietta, the list goes on.)

The problem with charts and graphs, actually any sort of factual information, is that they seldom change minds. If one is a die-hard conservative, they are likely to remain so. Any information contrary to that which supports one's belief will rejected outright.

When the Congressional Budget office concluded that the new health care legislation would actually reduce the deficit, Boehner simply rejected it. End of discussion.

Essentially it's the real-world equivalent of the Monty Python "Parrot sketch."

Rain said...

Yes, that's so, Robert. I have run into that many times also; but if we don't put the information out there, they think it's because it doesn't exist. The only hope we have is facts and then hope someday they'll draw their own conclusions from them, no longer be sucked in by the fervor from the right.

Ingineer66 said...

I agree that we are funding the security of much of the world. Like Trump says, we should get the oil in Libya if we are going to be there helping the people. But remember Iraq the first time. The left didn't want us to get oil for liberating the people there. And what are we getting for all we are spending in Japan. We are there to protect Japan and Taiwan and South Korea from China and North Korea at great expense and we just get grief for it. We should send them a bill.

Maybe we should just do what Hitler and Stalin did in the 30's and get together with Russia and China and carve up the world. Maybe that would be cheaper.

After saying in 2008 that he would put the wars into the Budget, Obama has done exactly like Bush and kept them off budget. Like Guantanamo, what he does and what he says are often something different.

Ingineer66 said...

I would like to see a chart of military spending from say 1946 to present or maybe 1900. Why did they start in 1998? You can make charts say most anything if you want to.

Ingineer66 said...

I did find a chart from 1948 to 2008. It went down from 85 to 98 so that is why they start in 98 to show the big upswing. It looks like from the chart that our spending now with 2 wars going is about the same as it was during the Korean War.

Rain said...

Tell me you're not a Trump supporter, please!!! lol We supposedly don't have empires but what he is talking if he wants to take the oil is empire building. He's such an icky person on every level. Given that I have heard him say if he can't get the Republican nomination, he'll run as an independent. Now that idea, i like a lot :)

Rain said...

Where did you read that he doesn't take it in the budget? I looked online for that info and found only right wing sources with accusations but no numbers anywhere. I had been told that he has been. Of course, it's all projected as a war cannot be conveniently computed ahead of time but I read that as soon as he got in office, they changed how they counted it.

Here's where a chat is on military costs. Down right after WWII, up with Korea and then Vietnam and then down some until
Reagan began the escalation that we still have today-- http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2006/0706sturr.html

Rain said...

chart

Rain said...

so then if you compare the dollars to the social spending, that has gone down and what's the complaint? Military spending is well over half the spending. The problem with the deficit is less taxes and not spending. The ones who want to be world mercenaries will like no jobs. It means young people need to join the military to supply that need. They are having a harder time getting in college-- even better. I don't want to be the world's mercenary and I do want good programs to help those who have the need. I want jobs here and educations for all who want one. I better hope my side of the pie, to support that by votes, is growing also, hadn't I!

Ingineer66 said...

When Obama got in office, he "said" he was going to put it in the budget. Then he held a press conference to announce that he was going to have to keep it off budget for one more cycle and then put it in. I heard the press conference he gave on the radio. Of course it was all Bushes fault that he had to keep it off budget. Then the next year he did the same thing again. He is all talk, no walk.

I am a Trump supporter only in the part that he is entertaining to listen to. He calls it like he sees it, therefore will never be President. If he runs independent he will split the vote like Perot and give Obama his second term.

Rain said...

Come on with Trump, he doesn't call it like he sees it. He is manipulating those who want to hear what he says. He may only be doing it to get ratings for his TV show. I don't think he can get the Republican nomination; so if he's on an ego trip, he'll run as an independent. He's a joke to most people who aren't righties. He's not even that good at running a business. He's a showman like Buffalo Bill Cody and probably appeals to the same bunch.

Rain said...

and I'm still trying to figure out your source for this information as I had read that he did add it into the budget. I cannot find a source that gives that quote.

Ingineer66 said...

Maybe he finally did add it this year. I know in the first two he did not.
That is what many people think that Trump is just drumming up ratings for his show.

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