Wednesday, October 27, 2010

Voting for something

A lot of politicians right now are running on their record...

Let's take Joe Miller in Alaska who just admitted he lied earlier when he could no longer keep the truth from coming out. That part of his record is probably supposed to be overlooked as part of his character...

And then there is Carly Fiorina in California who is running as a successful CEO (pardon me while I choke) and says she can do for the country what she did for HP. Perhaps voters in California should consider what that was.


Don't just go by what these people say about themselves. Look at what they did. Sometimes what they say will match like that Sharron Angle will vote no on pretty much everything. How that will get jobs for people in Nevada is something they might want to question... if they bother thinking on it. I suspect in that case (having seen the signs back in the spring when we drove through Nevada), it's a hate Harry Reid and thinking anything would be better. For six years? Seriously someone like her who wants to end Social Security, who thinks that religion should dictate our laws, seriously for six years?

You know voting against someone you don't like without taking into consideration what you are then voting for, that's not showing good judgment, is it?

34 comments:

Dion said...

I'm thankful my NJ district doesn't have any national level offices open for this mid-term election. America's corporate ruled democracy is vile and I no longer want to take part in it. My contempt is managed with a belief that the $#!+ will soon hit the fan... or is it a reboot button? Anyway, I believe we're in for sweeping systemic changes due to an economic collapse that can't stay hidden. Climate Change, no jobs, little vital industry, war for profit, corporate controlled government... How long can things remain as calm as they are?

How lucky we are to be living in such exciting times. Take care, Rain.

Rain said...

I keep hoping we can still turn it around but so many Americans are focused on the wrong things-- if you can loosely call that focus. My husband and I were discussing it this morning between all of this and global climate change how will this be for our children and grandchildren. Frankly for myself I don't care so much. I had my shot at it; but I do think about them and whether their lives will be as good as mine was in a world with as much opportunity. It doesn't look encouraging :(

Ingineer66 said...

Come on Rain, why be discouraged. Obama is going to spread the wealth around so everybody has the same opportunity or no opportunity as it seems. So tell your grandkids to sit on their asses and do nothing and the government will take care of them. Why should they work hard to make their own opportunity when they will just be punished for it.

OK that was pretty tongue in cheek. But isn't that what socialism (the progressive movement or whatever you want to call it) really is? It makes everybody equally miserable instead of the old American dream where anybody can achieve anything if they work hard enough.

Rain said...

So what exactly has Obama done to prove he's a socialist in your view?

He lowered taxes on the middle class and not the rich. Is that how you can tell?

Ah making sure everybody can have health care when they need it, that's got to be it? So we should now end Medicare, VA Hospitals and the health coverage Republican as well as Democratic legislators get because it's bad when people have government help to see a doctor and get say blood pressure medication?

And what I wrote about here is public education being the bedrock of our culture. perhaps that is how you and that earlier person, who didn't want to identify themselves, can tell I am secretly a communist sympathizer? A lot of people have favored public education but this group of Republicans today might be the first to see it as a good way to save money to end the school systems in this country, turn it all over to private contractors and let the richest pay for it and to heck with the rest. But keep that tax deduction to keep their religions tax free?

Obama hasn't done much of anything that looks like socialism to me but he's sure been nailed by it by the Mark Levins, the Rush Limbaughs and the Glenn Becks with no justification other than they can say it and nobody will check.

Sure we have some programs in this country, like say libraries, fire protection, police officers, pensions for the elderly, public inspection of food supplies, etc. Which ones do you not favor? I'd bet you worry most about the poor but how about the rich who have cheated the system? Not so much about them?

What gets me with the philosophy of the right at this time is they want less government-- so no more public roads, no checking on safety of food supplies, and who cares about air quality. So what we will have is a government that stays out of the way when your bank either fails or cheats you? This Republican government you want is promising to stop government from doing anything that doesn't benefit the wealthiest and somehow you think that's going to help he guy down the street get a job?

I am trying to figure out how a government that does nothing will help us other than turning us into the world's mercenaries (no idea how that will be paid for but who cares, the right likes putting wars on the tab, just not social services).

Oh I know the Republicans will fix it all because then the private sector will make all those jobs possible. Did you guys ever figure out it's the private sector that is shipping the jobs overseas so they can get better returns on profits? And you are voting for the people who want it to stay that way.

Logic like yours got us into this mess and it began with Reagan and now you want more of what got us here. Not surprising but it is frustrating. It looks like you will get it and we'll see how you enjoy hearing from Boehner regularly or Angle. She'll be a joy once she's a senator...

Dion said...

Ingineer66, Let's just be clear that socialism would mean a single payer healthcare overhaul. Not this Obamacare that continues to grant the middlemen (corporate insurance) a piece of the pie. Why we must pay more to receive less is malfeasance by our leaders. Leaders... what a joke that is. Rulers, corporate rulers, yes, that's more the case.

I will state for the record, Obamacare is better than the status quo we had. Yeah, it's hard to get too excited.

The illusion that Obama is a socialist can stay intact for the Right-wing but the legislation would not reflect this as factual. If we were socialist wouldn't we nationalize Big Oil rather than throwing money at Big Oil with subsidies and tax breaks?

Just a couple of things to think of as we get a new crop of politicians to do the bidding of the corporation. I think I've used 'corporation' way too many times. Hope the message isn't lost.

Rain said...

your message wasn't lost, Dion, and I'd say it's about the right number of times and they are lackeys for the corporations which I guess some hope that means some money will trickle down to them. I have a blog coming on that subject...

Rain said...

There is one way to make us competitive with manufacturing oversaes. Lower all wages to the level theirs are at-- and that means yours. When that happens, then we can compete... The rich, why they will just be richer than they already are but what i just said is socialism as it recognizes that government has helped the middle class gain power against the richest people. It took uniting together to do it. We are losing that power. Think that's going to work good for your grandkids? What, you are hoping they'll be among that 1%. Lots of luck with that!

Robert the Skeptic said...

You know, their record, event their intelligence, doesn't seem to matter. I think the Republicans could put a trained chimp (some believe they already have... several times) and Conservative voters would vote for em. Look at the nutcase here in Oregon Art Robinson. The guy is a total fruit and yet I see signs for him all over town and stuck on cars!

Little do they know that most of of see those signs and read "moron inside".

It just doesn't matter, they are going to vote for whatever candidate their party puts up... no thinking allowed!

Kay Dennison said...

I agree with you completely. A lot of candidates' records can't bear scrutiny. Then there are the Christine O'Donnell types who rival Sarah Palin for stupidity.

I'm with Robert. These people are the same as the people who went to Jonestown and drank the kool-aid. They are plain crazy. They are going to go nuts -- or is that nuttier? -- when their Medicare is gone and they can't get a new scooter.

I consider what the Tea Party wants is a death sentence for them as well as a lot of other elders who don't deserve to bear the consequences of their stupidity.

Ingineer66 said...

OK let me take some time to respond to the comments. Obama has said that he can’t lower taxes because he needs to spread the wealth around. Those are his words not anybody else’s. He is a big government guy. All of his answers to life’s problems are to grow the government and get them involved in whatever the problem is. His Vice President said this week that everything good ever invented in the last 210 years was done so with government help. That so blatantly false but it shows the mentality of our current leadership in DC they think only through them can anything happen in this country.

What do you mean he lowered taxes for the middle class? I am assuming that you mean the one-time credits that were paid for with stimulus money borrowed from China. What happened to the Democrat pledge from Pelosi that all legislation was going to have to be deficit neutral? You know so-called Pay as you go? I guess that went out the window.

Everybody has healthcare when they need it now. Obamacare does nothing to help people get care when they need it. What it is intended to do is help people get health insurance not healthcare. And it is actually having the opposite effect. The cost of healthcare and insurance is going up because of the new law. I know they told us costs would be less but most of us did not believe that and it is being borne out now. And most of the law has not even taken affect yet. It will just continue to get worse. And many companies are talking about dropping health insurance for employees. So what does the Obama administration do to respond? They start issuing waivers to the law for certain hand picked companies. If the law is so wonderful, then why do come companies get to opt out. And why do some States want to opt out. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

And Dion, I know that you lefties want Single Payer. If we get that in this country you will get just what you are trying to avoid. We will be right back to the 1950’s where there will be the government system for most people like the old county hospital system used to be for the poor. And there will be a separate system for the rich. That is how it works in England. They have two systems and the rich get better care. I know that comes as shock to you folks that want us to all be equally miserable but not how it works. And I disagree with you. I think the system put in place by Obamacare is worse than what we had. The system we had worked fine for 80% of Americans so instead of fixing the system for the 20% the new system will be messed up for 100% of Americans and we will still have 19 million people without health insurance. What about them? I guess the Democrats don’t care about them.

Ingineer66 said...
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Ingineer66 said...
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Ingineer66 said...

Obama has nationalized many other sectors of the economy and he would love to take over the oil companies. The talk about taking over BP stopped when England let Obama know who owned that company. But instead he got a $20 billion slush fund for his appointee to oversee. So close enough without him turning into Huga Chavez.

And Rain, you might be surprised to hear this but I know a little about VA hospitals, my brother in law has ran a couple of them. Despite the left loving to bash W. for them, they actually are a lot better than they used to be in the 70’s and 80’s and if they didn’t have to deal with so much bureaucracy and government employee unions and Congressional interference they would be even better. But since you folks want total government run healthcare that is what you will get is the worst of the VA on a much larger scale with much worse bureaucracy and worse level of care.

I am a fan of public education, but not of the job for life no matter what protections that we currently have in place for the teachers. We spend over $250,000 per classroom per year in California, so what is the answer? I do not think it is the answer we always hear that we should spend more money on education.

On the tax deduction for churches, it would not bother me if they did end it. But the left has spent so much effort to keep church and state separate do you think they will somehow now say it is OK to tax a church? Sounds like a conflict to me.

As for basic government services, you know I think that is what the government should provide, but it is the Democrats in power that always cut the basic services like police, fire and roads first instead of all their feel good social engineering programs. Look at cities and states all over the country especially ones ran by Democrats and they are cutting police and fire protection.

And Rain I do not want to lower the wages in this country to those in Vietnam or Malaysia, but on that note why don’t we make minimum wage $75 an hour, certainly that would solve all of our problems. It seems that is what the left always wants to do.

Ingineer66 said...
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Rain said...

Teachers do not have the job for life, ingineer. That's a lie of the right. Tenure is in the universities, not regular education where teachers who are not competent can be fired. you are buying into to what the right tells you.

How easy would it be to fire you? I bet they'd have to come up with excuses which is the case with teachers.

There is going to be income redistribution with any taxation. If you don't want that, then you don't want libraries, police, fire, any of that.

Good luck with those you are voting for. My guess is you will find they aren't what you hoped for but you are about to find out when you vote for Sarah Palin bots. You might find out even more with 2012 if Sarah Palin gets in. I suspect it won't be what you had imagined. Fantasies usually are not.

When you lower minimum wage or perhaps forget it totally you might be surprised what that does to your wage. You are voting to find out!

Rain said...

As for health care, what the poor have now, the working poor that is, is to go to the emergency rooms and get whatever they can find. That isn't chemotherapy or bp medications but what do you care, right?

Rain said...

I don't know where you get your statistics on California education but it's likely a right wing site. Try this one for the full picture-- http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/articles/article.asp?title=california%20comparison

Rain said...

All taxes spread the wealth around. I wish you righties would understand that. If you want no taxes for services, be honest but if you have taxes, they spread the wealth round as the rich (although under republicans that might change) pay more. That's just how it is.. or rather was. I suspect when it's otherwise, you will get a surprise.

Rain said...

Health care costs are going up not because of Obama's plan because very little of that has taken effect. It's because the costs have been going up all along and they will continue where the Republicans block any kind of controls on the costs. Look for that to grow given the next Congress will be controlled by those who favor profits for industries. If that worked out to more jobs, it might be tolerable but all it mean is more income for those on the top of the food chain. You are not one of those; so why are you favoring them?

Paul said...

Is Obama a Socialist ? Well, the future will tell. ANd some of the folks he came up with like Aulinsky definitely were. You can tell a lot about a person by the people that they hang out with Rain. And spreading the wealth is fine for folks that don't have it, but what about the people that took the time to earn it ? Big Brother can do almost anything he wants and he comes under many guises-Left and Right.As for American Public Education the results are mixed-some schools are good, some are atrocious and the rest in the middle. I believe that the parent, not the state,should have the final say so in how , his or her, child is educated.

Rain said...

I am writing several blogs on the topic if 'redistribution of wealth', Paul; so won't address that here. I woke up thinking about it as it's sure the mantra from the right. On schools-- parents have that right now. What you want is me to pay for them to choose a school I find an abomination for what it teaches. Look into it. Nobody is forced into public schools. If you get your way, I'd be forced to pay for those parents sending their kids to a school that teaches what I consider to be lies. That's the issue-- over taxes, not over freedom to different schools if parents so choose. I know plenty who did choose that or home schooled; so it's not like the government forces them to go to the public school. How come the right doesn't understand that???

Dion said...

Ingineer66 - "Obama has nationalized many other sectors of the economy and he would love to take over the oil companies."

Come on Ingineer66, "many"... name the "many". I'll then attempt to explain why they were nationalized. Though, I expect a short list. A very short list.

Ingineer66, On healthcare, do you have a particular study that ranks the different healthcare systems around the world. Do you have anything with substance? Something we could look at and say, yes, that is the best system...

Dion said...

Saul Alinsky died in 1972 and someone claims Obama "come up" with him. Linear time had to bend hard right for that to happen. Not just time, but the Earth would have had to bend. 1972, that's the year Obama was learning how to be a terrorist in a Muslim madrasah in??? No, actually in 1972 Obama was ten years old and living in Hawaii.

Why the Right-wing wants to use Saul Alinsky as a boogie man is beyond my leftist thinking. He's an American hero.

Paul said...

Rain if your taxes go into education they could be used in a school that teaches something alien to your philosophy. Once the government gets the money they use it as they (the government) sees fit. When was the last time the federal government asked you how to spend your tax money-they do it as they please as a matter of course. And a lot of Americans on the Left want more Big Brother in our lives! Go figure. Let the federal government dictate our future . NOT !!

Rain said...

My money now goes to a public school where i have a right to attend board meetings and voice my opinions. I am furious at the right for trying to dismantle this system. They (you too when you support this) want to dumb down Americans and leave an elite ruling class.

There is NOTHING you suggest as a part of fascist thinking that infuriates me more than wanting to ruin our schools. Quit telling me they are all failing. All you know about it is what you are told by right wingers. Go there, see the kids, talk to the teachers. You can do that and you could offer to help them learn poetry. They would love that. Try going to a private school and having any input at all.

What makes me so mad at the right is one of the damaging things done to public schools was under Bush where testing became the criteria for success and it made a lot of money for those companies (one run by his brother coincidentally) but it has made the teachers' jobs even more difficult. Learning is not all about taking tests but when so much of the day is devoted to it, it's one more way of making good teachers have to figure out ways around it. AND they do when they can.

You benefited from a public system. You want to deny others the same chance. You are so selfish to think that way! Work to make the public system better, not destroy it leaving nothing for the majority of children in this country. All I can say is grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Rain said...

And Dion, you are right. They dredge up names from the past and try to use them as evidence to prove Obama is a wantabe terrorist, a Muslim and a socialist when the facts of what he has actually done don't justify it. He is not a socialist. Yes, we have some socialism programs in this country like medicare, medicaid, social security, police and fire protection, libraries, schools, military, all paid for by taxes that are not equal for how many dollars are paid-- hence income redistribution. Although the requirement on the health care is that people buy insurance and from an insurance company. The only place the government gets into it is helping low income people pay the premium but they balanced that by cuts elsewhere.

The selfishness that is rampant today just amazes me. It has become a virtue to the right. Where will it take us? No concern for anybody but themselves and they are praised for it and call it Christianity. No wonder my bp was up this morning. I need a long vacation from blogging about politics and intend to take it-- right after the election!

Ingineer66 said...

I did not mention Saul Alinksy so I do not know why you commented on him. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

Rain I looked at your website on education. It did not mention how many teachers have been fired for cause in California. But I did find that 31 have been fired for cause in the last 5 years. So that is 6 per year out of the 298,000 teachers we have. Those are pretty good odds. Most of those fired were for things like child molestation and drug dealing. And yes it would not be easy to fire me. Some people have been fired in our district office in the last few years and some of those got reinstated because of their union protection. Which I totally disagree with. One in particular that was reinstated with back pay should have been fired years earlier for multiple offenses, but yet he is still on dole and making the rest of us look bad. So I would rather make it easier to fire problem state employees or teachers.

And I did find on your site that California is number 29 in expenditure per pupil but number 49 in number of teachers per 1000 pupils so we are paying too much for what we are getting. Not enough money is getting to the classroom which has long been the argument so just throwing more money at the problem is not a good solution. I also noticed that we are number 47 in highway spending. So we could spend some more money there too considering our traffic volumes keep going up every year.

Oh and don't tell me that I am voting for Palin. If she is the best the Republican party can come up with next time then they deserve to lose. I talk about Obama and you guys start bad mouthing me. Try sticking to the issues instead of making assumptions about who I am and what I feel.

Dion, Obama has nationalized the student loan program and had the government take an ownership interest in GM, Chrysler, AIG, the nations major banks, several Wall Street Firms. Trying for Healthcare. Talked about oil. Those are off the top of my head.

Ingineer66 said...

I did not mention Saul Alinksy so I do not know why you commented on him. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

Rain I looked at your website on education. It did not mention how many teachers have been fired for cause in California. But I did find that 31 have been fired for cause in the last 5 years. So that is 6 per year out of the 298,000 teachers we have. Those are pretty good odds. Most of those fired were for things like child molestation and drug dealing. And yes it would not be easy to fire me. Some people have been fired in our district office in the last few years and some of those got reinstated because of their union protection. Which I totally disagree with. One in particular that was reinstated with back pay should have been fired years earlier for multiple offenses, but yet he is still on dole and making the rest of us look bad. So I would rather make it easier to fire problem state employees or teachers.

And I did find on your site that California is number 29 in expenditure per pupil but number 49 in number of teachers per 1000 pupils so we are paying too much for what we are getting. Not enough money is getting to the classroom which has long been the argument so just throwing more money at the problem is not a good solution. I also noticed that we are number 47 in highway spending. So we could spend some more money there too considering our traffic volumes keep going up every year.

Oh and don't tell me that I am voting for Palin. If she is the best the Republican party can come up with next time then they deserve to lose. I talk about Obama and you guys start bad mouthing me. Try sticking to the issues instead of making assumptions about who I am and what I feel.

Dion, Obama has nationalized the student loan program and had the government take an ownership interest in GM, Chrysler, AIG, the nations major banks, several Wall Street Firms. Trying for Healthcare. Talked about oil. Those are off the top of my head.

Rain said...

He did not nationalize the auto companies you mentioned or the banks. They had loans which they are in the process of paying back where they will no longer have conditions on their companies. ANYBODY who borrows that much money sometimes finds there are rules attached. We will not be in the auto business.

Health care is still private industry and the only change is requirement to buy it if you can afford it and gov't help if you cannot. That's no different than many other requirements in our country.

The Wall Street deals were forged under Bush and where Obama did vote for it, he didn't instigate it. But we won't be running those institutions either. They pay back the money and the obligation is over.

You read too much rightie stuff.

As for voting for Palin, we'll see what you do. Right now she's looking, especially given some of the other candidates Republicans are running, like she will get it if she wants it unless something else comes along. If she does, who will you vote for? Obama? The only scenario under which she could win would be if Bloomberg enters and just as Perot cost the first Bush a win, Bloomberg could cost both of the main candidates an Electoral College majority. So voting for Bloomberg could be a vote for Palin as we all know who the heavily right leaning House will choose even if Obama has the popular vote. It's how they have done all along.

Rain said...

And as for California's education system, I don't know. I only know Oregon is still educating kids just fine when they want to learn and that despite the Bush requirement on testing that has so screwed education everywhere.

Ingineer66 said...

I don't know why this is double and triple posting my comments. Well for California if only 1% of teachers were incompetent that would be 3000 that would need to be fired so at 6 per year, in 500 years we will have gotten rid of the incompetent ones. So unless teachers live for more than 500 years I would say that is a job for life.

If you can get a teaching job right now in Cali. We are not hiring new ones and laying off the young go getters so the old dead wood can keep their high paying jobs.

This State is so broken it is just ridiculous and now it looks like we are going to elect Governor Moonbeam to another shot at it. His first act when he was elected Attorney General was to sue GM, Ford and Chrysler for contributing to Green House Gas emissions. This is the kind of garbage this guy wants to waste our limited resources on and now we are going to make him governor. I am not very confident in Meg Whitman either on the slight chance she wins. Too bad there is not a viable third party person on the ballot. We need a Mars Attacks type attack at the Capital in Sacramento and DC and start over will all new people. Hopefully that will not get the FBI at my door. But I think almost everybody in office and most of those currently running for office are all cut from the same cloth. We need some new blood.

Rain said...

Keep in mind part of the expenses of the schools are the retirees, some with pretty big pensions. Government employees are pretty much the only ones who get pensions these days.

And I heard a suggestion I liked but doubt the existing republicans or democrats would go for it but how about a none of the above? And when you check that, they have to provide new candidates, can't run the retreads.

Redondowriter said...

Thanks for this article about Carly Fiorina. Both Whitman and Fiorina were terrible CEOs. I voted for Jerry Brown and Barbara Boxer three weeks ago when I did my mail-in ballot. And yes on Prop. 19, the marijuana initiative.

Dion said...

Ingineer66, Saul Alinsky was mentioned by someone else (Paul) on this blog post. Paul seems to have made a drive by shooting en route to a tea party. Don't be alarmed, no one got hurt except for the truth.

Thanks for the list of nationalized sectors, Ingineer66. Not one you mentioned was nationalized by Obama. Rain explained away most of your short list. Leaving me with student loans.

A very loose translation of nationalized would need to be used to say the student loan program was nationalized by Obama. The fact is those student loans were previously guaranteed by the government anyway. Leaving the banker out of the equation makes perfect sense. Unless you're a banker who makes their money from government money.

So Obama nationalized a government program that was nationalized years ago albeit with a corporate middleman taking a slice of the pie.

You can't legitimately claim, "Obama has nationalized many other sectors of the economy."

Ingineer66, Did I miss your source for the best healthcare system? Where is that capitalist healthcare system that is showing you the light?